[BC] Professional Respect - from the other side of the street...

[Cowboy]

On Thursday 14 December 2006 03:03 pm, Jeff Welton wrote:
> Along the lines of where this thread has evolved, what do you consider 
sufficient levels of support from those of us on the other end of the phone 
when it comes to helping you stay legal? 

 It would be difficult to argue that Nautel is merely "sufficient" by any 
comparison.

> Say a contract engineer calls with an AM transmitter, that he says won't 
make full (i.e., station licensed) power.  He has a multimeter and a clip on 
AC ammeter, but no other test equipment whatsoever.

 That limits one's options immediately.
 At that point, maybe some rudimentary suggestions, but little more
 than requesting he make available what might be required to go further.

> The station is up for sale, so with due diligence and all, there's a lot of 
pressure on the contract guy (no full time engineer). 

 One can understand, and sympathize, but to your original question this
 doesn't affect what's a sufficient level of manufacturer support in any way,
 UNLESS the box is still within warrantee.
 It goes to what the seller should be paying for, not what he might ask for 
free.
 
> With some basic meter reading, it's immediately obvious that the transmitter 
power meter is not accurate, by a long shot (measured volts and dc current 
levels indicate it's actually putting out about 35% of nominal, power meter 
is now, somehow, reading 100% - even though the original complaint was that 
it wouldn't make full power).  So, right off, I can be reasonably sure they 
aren't legal (at least it's on the low side, not the high side!).    

 You can't be sure it's on the low side.
 If the power meter is off by THAT much, this calls into question the accuracy
 of every other indication available as well, until independently verified by
 some other means.

 If you're saying the VOM and the clamp-on are indicating 35% or so, that's
 another thing, but suggests that nothing in the transmitter can be relied on.

> Now they want us to help them fix it over the phone... but there's no base 
current meter (non-D signal) for us to calibrate the power meter against.  
Nor is there a dummy load, so I can't even ballpark it with the volts and 
current, since I'm not sure of the load impedance (nobody knows when it was 
bridged last).  I can't even measure the PDM duty cycle, beyond taking a DVM 
DC voltage measurement and calculating an approximate number.

 There's only so much one can do within the laws of physics.
 There MUST be a known.
 Moreso, you're getting into areas that some of us do as a business.
 If more equipment, and/or more expertise is needed, perhaps a suggestion
 that they hire someone with whom you can work would be in their better 
interest.
 Maybe so far as a referral to someone local to them. I'd have to think
 about that one, though.

> So, the dilemma... we told the contract guy he needed to get a base current 
meter or some calibrated RF ammeter so we could accurately measure the RF 
output current from the transmitter.  Then they need a bridge so we know what 
impedance that current is flowing through, at which point we'll know the 
power. 

 That's not bad.
 Even a borrowed dummy load would be better than nothing.

> Then we'll be able to calibrate the transmitter power meter and start to 
take steps to resolve any other issues (like the transmitter not being able 
to make full power or whatever else may be outstanding).  It was also 
suggested that a scope might be in order, just in case we need that to look 
at any signals that don't display well on a multimeter, such as RF Drive 
levels. 

 If you're asking the contract guy to gather any tools that even might be
 needed, I'd agree.
 Simply to answer the question as presented, I'm not sure.

 "Here's what we'd like to see for tools, now what can you get ?"

> However, the station owner has called complaining that we aren't doing 
enough to help them get the station back to fully operational status so he 
can sell it.  Is there more I could/should be doing, in the collective 
opinion of the list?

 In my opinion, no !!
 YOU sell transmitters, not radio stations.

 That the current owner has decided to sell the station has NOTHING to
 do with support that may, or may not be provided.
 That's his problem, not yours.
 Further, operational status is HIS responsibility, not yours.

 One would not expect Ford to fix my model T so I can sell it, and do it
 over the phone for free !

> This is where you get to provide input that can help us to improve our level 
of service.  One other thing - this transmitter is on it's 2nd frequency, at 
it's 2nd location, under it's 3rd owner - and it's just over 20 years old. 

 That you are even willing to talk about it says much for you, and your 
company.
 Ask Ford about parts and techniques for a 20 year old auto, on IT'S
 second motor, and third owner !!

 In this case, a reasonable level of support would be to refer them to
 someone like me who will, for a fee, fly in and make the problem go away.

 For an owner to expect the original manufacturer to make it happen for free,
 just so he doesn't have to pay someone like me, is an unreasonable request.

 I'll go further, and suggest that resolving this for them is a DIS-service !
 Why ?
 Because it will ultimately cause folks like me to go out of business due
 to lack of work ( by you doing it for free ) such that when they NEED someone
 to do what you can't, we won't be in this business anymore.

> On a side topic, what do you figure is our level of responsibility, as the 
support folks, to tell the customer that they are out of tolerance and to 
determine what actions are required on their end with respect to notifying 
the FCC? 

 Your level of responsibility ? NONE !!
 Mentioning that it MAY be operating outside the terms of the license,
 as a side note courtesy, but certainly no more.
 You are NOT the station counsel, and should not be dispensing legal opinion,
 in my opinion. ( not necessarily legal )
 It's the Chief Operator's responsibility to notify the licensee, and take 
steps
 to correct the situation, NOT the transmitter manufacturer's responsibility.

> I haven't checked the rules, so I don't know what actions they need to take, 
but I have informed them that they are, no matter what the power meter on the 
transmitter says, definitely operating below the 10% lower than nominal 
level.  Is there more I should/could be doing in this area? 

 Jeff, while I appreciate you and your well deserved reputation for going
 above and beyond, that's a little TOO above and beyond.
 It's not your radio station, and you're not their lawyer.
 You're probably not even their designated Chief ! 

 It MAY be operating outside of legal tolerance, or it MAY not be.
 You've provided a scenario where you CAN'T know.
 You know that "something" is inaccurate. Nothing more.

 "Probably" it's outside legal tolerance.
 That's the responsibility ( by the rules ) solely of the licensee, neither
 you, nor I, and not even the chief !

> I'd appreciate all responses being kept on list, I'm sure that I'm not the 
only one in a factory setting who occasionally wonders exactly how much 
support you (as customers) figure is enough

 As a customer, it's NEVER enough !!
 OK, getting back to reality......

> and at what levels we pass from pathetic

 Pathetic is not answering the phone, not calling back, or the classic
 "If you have a backup transmitter, call back between 9 and 4 eastern time."

> to sufficient

 Sufficient would be enough to reasonably expect making it work under
 normal circumstances, given the information provided by the engineer
 making the request, and suggesting what more they might provide you
 to get a more complete answer.
 Then, of course, providing that answer when the requesting party provides
 whatever more info is needed.
 Possibly even providing a guestimate of cost for factory service on-site.

> to exemplary.  My target is slightly above exemplary, so tell me what tools 
I need to get there.

 Jeff, it's pretty hard to hit "slightly above exemplary" when you ARE the 
example !!

 An intimate knowledge of the product, parts, typical failure modes, and
 corrective actions, but certainly not every conceivable problem that
 might ever crop up under any and all circumstances.

> What I'm interested in is your ideas on what I can REASONABLY expect you to 
have for skills and equipment and what you expect me to know and/or do in 
order to help you resolve any situations you encounter.      

 Reasonably, you should expect the local guy to have all of the tools 
specified
 in the manual, but no more, and perhaps adequate, or sometimes inadequate
 substitutions AND to be able to use most of 'em without hurting himself
 ( or herself ) or the equipment in using them according to manufacturers 
instructions.
 To accurately read meters, and to be reasonably proficient at working
 in a potentially lethal environment.

 What I expect from you, is the ability to provide an accurate answer, given
 that my question contains all of the data needed to provide that answer,
 or the ability to find out in a timely fashion.

> I've got a few new guys coming down the line (no turnover, just growing) and 
a lot of their training will be based on what we routinely get for calls.... 
but some of the responses I receive to this query may help to shape the 
extent and focus of that training.  Your chance to help us to help you, as it 
were.  

 One owner says to another....
 Why don't you have any engineers at all ?
 Second owner says "I got a Nautel. They provide it all for free."

 I'd summarize by saying that providing support should be limited to
 what a reasonably competent and experienced engineer might not know,
 or be able to easily learn, simply because you have a more intimate 
 knowledge of your product, but nothing more.

-- 
Cowboy